EchoDitto

Long Post, but... my heart said, post it. It came to me just yesterday from OK. Already some smart people are commenting on it at our listserve. (It stretches yout topic a bit.) But, please, I want to encourage echo-ditto to GO FOR IT, create this open source magnet...

Harish--
Great point. Do you (and Nicco?) want to write something for Personal Democracy Forum elaborating on what you see the problems are with not having a comprehensive solution, and how none of the efforts currently underway to provide one do that?
Micah

Micah -

I did write up a brief talking points memo (two-three) pages that discusses the issue. I'm too embarrased to put it up on this website (it's very rough), but I will email it to you - send me your email address to MY_FIRST_NAME AT ECHODITTO.COM. I'd love to hear your comments.

Also, Dave suggested we put up a website to get a discussion of this issue going. I'm game for that; honestly, however, time is short, and we need to act quickly.

HRR

Hi geri

which listserv are you talking about? any chance I can join? thanks

HRR

Harish,

Earlier today I sent Michael the post Geri's talking about (I'm 99% sure.) I'll forward to you.

-- L

Harish,

Interesting post, but as a customer in this space I would submit that your analysis of what's needed is 180 degrees off.

No one company is ever going to provide the be-all, end-all solution for "content management, blogging/podcasting, credit card processing/fundraising, bulk email management, event management, metrics & reporting, CRM, and voterfile management". Period. The problem space is just too big.

It's especially not going to be provided by a small company which can't throw hundreds or thousands of programmers for five years at the problem. (Not that a BigCo would have a better chance at producing a usable product -- but they could at least write off the failure and survive.)

If you try to have one product that solves all those problems, what you'll end up with is either a package that does one thing very well and a bunch of other things poorly, or that does everything with a kind of generalized mediocrity.

The solution is not to have a bunch of companies running around trying to build the One True Database. It is in developing protocols through which systems from different companies can interoperate and integrate. Then companies can build products that solve one problem within the problem space, and leave the rest to other vendors.

It amazes me how far behind the curve the nonprofit tech companies are with this.

Hmm, i was under the impression that the good folks at CivicACtions and CivicSpaceLabs we talking about integrating Advokit Voterfile management to CivicSpace and that the CivicSpace guys were joined by former groundspring folks to make the CRM and donation components?

Jason,

I couldn't agree more. What we need is more inter-operability , preferably via well-defined, well-documented standards and APIs -- not more well-intentioned monoliths. Now of course, writing APIs takes programmer resources and is far less fun than writing kewl new user-facing features.

I'm with Jason Lefkowitz on this. We've had several conversations over the last two years with potential resellers who wanted Polycot to build a one size fits all solution, however this is one of the very things we dislike about the proprietary/shrinkwrap approach to software: in trying to market systems that meet the demands of many potential users, they create bloat and incorporate additional complexity, and there are inevitably pieces of their systems that are below par.

What's great about working with Open Source tools is that you can find and integrate best of breed solutions - and rather than paying a huge sum to Microsoft for some suite of bloatware, a nonprofit or small company can pay a developer/integrator to build a custom system that includes the best applications to meet whatever requirements were defined - and the system can be focused on the specific needs of the organization.

Harish Rao of echoditto, coming from a conversation with Dave Winer, wants to create a one size fits all system for progressives that is inexpensive, easy to use, and "does content management, blogging/podcasting, credit card processing/fundraising, bulk email management, event...

Note... having re-read Harish's post I changed "wants to create" to "wants to see" – on re-reading it was clear that Harish is calling for a collaboration, and not proposing the echoditto will build the solution. I'm thinking what we should do instead is identify what tools exist and what requirements aren't well-addressed so far... which is one focus of the activist technology group.

I've been talking a bit about the need for a good, inexpensive web platform for political campaigns. The way I see it, there are two stumbling blocks for widespread adoption of this idea: the first is a

CAIR, you know what will happen to muslims that work for organizations like CAIR after the next big attack

against America by muslims, you will be rounded-up and put in concentrations camps the way the Germans and

Japanese were in America during WWII (and the way Jews were in Germany) There is talk of it now, wait and see.

You will be sent out west, you will eat internal organs from cows, pigs,and chickens, they will be mixed together

to make hotdogs and lunchmeat. You will eat it or starve to death. You will wish you never heard of islamm.
Bring it ON!! :)
Islamism and the old defeated and failed ideology of pan-Arabism is what many Islamic groups in America are advocating. They are silent in the face of Muslim poverty, corruption, neglect of human rights, oppression of women, honor killings and the brutal and unusual punishments such as cutting off limbs, flogging and stoning. They are not using American freedoms as an opportunity to change their countries of origin, but as an opportunity to influence and change America to be like the countries they came from."

this is a great discussion. on the lighter side of things, please refer to this:
http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=8888